To Jack

To Jack, a commentator on the website, https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com

I had said that common ERVs prove common descent beyond any reasonable doubt. He gave a lengthy response, which, I feel, deserves a full answer. His comments are in black,  and mine are in red.

Hello Mr. Besborough. Evolutionists argue that ERVs should be found in evolutionarily related species because of common ancestry. Therefore, they claim ERVs to be proof of evolution since we find certain ERVs in the exact same location across the genome of “evolutionarily related” species. As a result, ERVs have become an often cited evidence “proving” that evolution is true.

However, we know that evidence doesn’t speak for itself. Part of the scientific method demands interpretation. Since every scientist has to interpret the evidence, their interpretation bias affects what they say about origins. So ERVs, in and of themselves, do not prove evolution any more than they prove creation. Since we know the Word of God is true, we know that ERVs cannot be proof of evolution. There are several arguments opposing the evolutionary fairy tale that ERVs prove common ancestry.

Interpretive bias is checked, in the scientific field, by peer review. Nobody outside of creationism has any doubts about what this evidence tells us. We do not know that the "Word of God" is in fact, the word of God. People claim that it is, but, as Hitchens' Razor states, an assertion made without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. Let's look at your arguments.

Evolutionists will say that shared ERVs prove evolution to be true because of common ancestry and that common ancestry assumes that there will be shared ERVs. Making such a claim is silly because this kind of circular reasoning is unsupported by any outside information. In fact, there are several characteristics of ERVs that strongly support a biblical worldview.

No assumption of evolution is made when concluding that commonly located ERVs are due to common ancestry.

A conclusion drawn from evidence and reasoning is not an assumption or a presupposition.

The conclusion is drawn from the following items of evidence -

1. ERVs have the same detailed structure as proviruses. This fact does not require us to assume evolution.
2. Retroviral integration does not target specific loci in DNA. This fact does not require us to assume evolution.
3. Inheritance places the same genetic material in the same locations in DNA. This fact does not require us to assume evolution.

The fact that any ERVs . . . exist among primates at all strongly argues against common ancestry by itself.

Assuming the Darwinian hypothesis is correct, ERVs would have inserted into the genome and remained there for millions of years. This is why evolutionists say they see shared ERVs in many organisms today that shared a common ancestor millions of years ago. Josh Dubnau at Cold Spring Harbor Labs said, “We’ve had these things in our genomes for millions of years. Anything that can be used by evolution will be used by evolution.” Dubnau’s statement can easily be turned into the following assertion: evolution eliminates what will be eliminated by evolution. It is important to realize that evolution works based on a “use it or lose it” basis. The fact that any ERVs (which are “leftover, useless” pieces of DNA) exist among primates at all strongly argues against common ancestry by itself.

But why should so-called junk DNA be conserved for millions (even billions) of years of evolution when it supposedly has no purpose? The argument of junk DNA simply perpetuates the problems with the vestigial organs argument, but at the molecular level. If the genome has no purpose for such elements by evolutionists’ reasoning, then it should have been eliminated millions of years ago. You can’t have your cake and eat it, too.

It is a common lie that creationists tell when confronted with the evidence from ERVs, that ERV genes are all useless or harmful. No. It is real scientists who have found that reverse transcriptase is error-prone, and that ancient endogenizations have errors that prevent viral replication, but can also endow their carriers with useful, and now, even essential elements.

Another problem with the idea that ERVs support common ancestry is the logical fallacy known as the “argument from ignorance.” Simply finding ERVs in a genome is not sufficient proof common ancestry occurred. ERVs do not come with a birth or death certificate. Therefore, there is no way to know beyond a shadow of a doubt (as many evolutionists claim) that this somehow proves evolution. Moreover, evolutionists are not willing to imbibe arguments suggesting alternative explanations for why we find ERVs where we do. Surely some evolutionists could retort saying that we are holding to a “God of the gaps” to rescue our position, but that simply is not the case. For one, evolutionists have their own version of a “God of the gaps.” It’s called “Evolution of the Gaps.”

I have never come across a single viable alternative explanation for commonly located ERVs from creationists, and that is after many years of studying this topic.

Further, scientists are finding actual functions for a number of ERVs, which declassifies them as junk and demotes the argument that they are evolutionary proof for common ancestry to just wishful thinking. “Absence of proof is not proof of absence”—attributed to William Cowper.

Real scientists, as opposed to "creation scientists" have found these functions and reported them. None of them have been convinced that it affects the conclusion in any way.

One last problem associated with citing ERVs as proof of evolution is that no one can provide a naturalistic selective mechanism for how they “jump” in DNA from generation to generation. The movements are said to be random, and how can anyone describe a random event? While we know the parts to the molecular puzzle, we are missing the big picture (natural selection acting on DNA) of why each piece fits where it does (or moves where it does from generation to generation). Without a clear naturalistic selective mechanism for how ERVs are selected for in a particular place, or the function they serve, we cannot see the big picture. It is highly probable that ERVs “jumping” is a result of the Fall of Adam. Sin entered the world and what was once perfect, and properly functioning, changed into something that it was never meant to be. The picture painted by evolutionists is that they are the only ones who can provide a naturalistic mechanism for why certain ERVs are selected for and conserved in disparate genomes. Even more, they insist that they, therefore, should be the only trusted ones. People claiming to be the sole source of information for the general public ought to be heavily scrutinized, and the burden of proof remains with them if they cannot prove otherwise. Without having a clear selective advantage, they don’t have a leg to stand on, nor do you either sir.

You are rather confused about this, and you clearly don't understand what the evidence tells us. Endogenization is a process that integrates viral DNA in unpredictable host DNA loci. The fact that they are found in precisely the same loci in different organisms can only be explained by inheritance, which makes copies of DNA.

Evolutionists want to push God out of the picture so they won’t have to be accountable to God. I pray you study this deeper to see you and the others are in error.

"Evolutionists" are not interested in gods, but they are interested in the truth. This includes both believers and unbelievers.